London Al-Sharq al-Awsat (in Arabic) Report by Ali Halni in Mogadishu: “Shaykh Uways: Al-Qa’ida Organization, Members Not Present In Somalia”

There has never been a more controversial character in Somalia than Shaykh Hasan Tahir Uways, Islamic Courts Shura [consultative] Council chairman.  His followers call him the “preacher shaykh,” his adversaries call him the “extremist Wahhabi,” the Americans consider him to be Al-Qa’ida’s man in Somalia, and his admirers call him “the mujahid teacher.”

The man’s religious, military, and organizational background demonstrates that he firmly believes in an Islamic state in Somalia; a state ruled by the Islamic sharia. He never wastes an opportunity without exploiting it in stressing this stand. 

The last time I met him was before he was appointed Islamic Courts Shura Council chairman. I asked him to comment on the US war on terrorism, his being on the list of those who support terrorism, and the freezing of his funds in US banks.  He said:

“First of all, the US war against the so-called terrorism is not a security war aimed at wiping out terrorism.  Indeed it is a religious war aimed against those who want to restore Islamic rule in states where Muslims live. The Americans covered this up by announcing a war against terrorism. This fluid phrase is used to brand with terrorism every individual or group that the United States does not want. I say that this is a religious war and the rest are mere slogans.”

Shaykh Uways scoffed at the US announcement that his funds in US banks have been frozen, saying:

“I am a poor man and do not have that much money to deserve depositing in banks. In principle, I do not trust the US system and banks. If I had millions I would not deposit them in US banks. There are many places in this world that depositors can trust.”

Shaykh Uways’s house is an ordinary building in the capital Mogadishu. We requested a visit and an interview him and he opened the door for us. No tight security measures, as I had expected, were visible. There was just an ordinary guard. A number of children were playing in the house’s courtyard, occasionally passing through the room where we sat and then moving away to continue their play.

Shaykh Uways insisted on stopping the interview when the muezzin called for the sunset prayers and he asked us to accompany him to the mosque on foot to pray and then return to continue the interview. We did just that. On the way to the mosque, his relatives and well-wishers greeted him as an ordinary person. We prayed at the nearby mosque and we returned to his modest sitting room where his little daughter had placed two plates in which there was a meal for Shaykh Uways’s breakfast because he had been fasting. He asked us to share his breakfast with him. The simple meal consisted of pieces of ruti or Somali bread, some soup, and tea. He did not eat much and he did not try to appear excessively generous to his guests.

I asked him about the presence of Al-Qa’ida in Somalia, as many US officials charge. He said:

“If they mean Al-Qa’ida as an organization or individuals, it is not present in Somalia. If they mean the existence in Somalia of Islamists who reject US allegations, then these are undoubtedly present everywhere, and here as well. We might differ with Al-Qa’ida in methods, practices, and circumstances, but it is obvious that the Americans fight all those who want to establish Islamic rule in public life as well as those who are seeking a state, honor, and pride.”

Shaykh Uways said:

“If the Americans fear Al-Qa’ida then this is their own business. We are not concerned at all. We also have fears of many things. Our fears might be the same on certain matters and these fears might differ on other things. However, the Americans say that their highest ideal is democracy and freedom. If they are telling the truth, then let them leave us alone to make friends and establish relations with whomever we like and to bring to our country whomever we want. They are giving this right only to themselves and they deny us this right. This is unacceptable.”

Shaykh Uways added heatedly:

“We do not have to hate those who the United States hates. Let us love whoever we want and hate whoever we want based on our interests and not on what the Americans want.”

Shaykh Uways explained the relationship between the Somalis and the United States saying:

“Our basic principle is that we fight those who fight us and oppose those who oppose us; and we make peace with whoever wants to make peace with us. This is nothing new, neither in politics nor in other matters.” 

He added:

“The United States is hostile to Somalia because of two reasons: The first is that it was humiliated here 13 years ago when it fought with the Somalis; and the second is that the establishment of an Islamic state in Somalia is, as they claim, against US interests. I call on them to correct this way of thinking.”

Shaykh Uways detailed what he called the direct US war against Somalia. He said:

“They are fighting us politically, economically, and in all fields. Their warplanes are overflying our territory day and night. Their ships are blockading our coast and they want us to say: ‘Yes Sir.’ This will not happen.”

I asked Shaykh Uways if he believed that the Islamists were qualified to rule Somalia, he said:

“Yes, they are qualified. We have cadres with knowledge, honesty, morals, and faith and these qualities are supposed to make them the best group in the society, if they are given the opportunity.”

I told him that the guide of the biggest Muslim Brotherhood movement in the biggest Arab state said that the Brotherhood were not qualified to rule Egypt. How can you rule when you are fewer and less experienced? He said:

“This statement is the result of a feeling of inferiority.  It is due to two reasons. The first is that the Brotherhood were prevented from participating in the Government for many decades because of local repression and international pressures. They are frightened of governance and they consider it something outside their power.”

“The second thing is that they might want to govern Egypt with their cadres alone, because they know each other, and this is impossible now.  I think that had they thought of other parties and considered them part of what they were seeking, matters would have changed.  Generally, this is because they feel inferior.”

I asked Shaykh Uways: Who do you mean by the qualified Somalis who can govern the country?  He said:

“As I understand, Islamists are all those who are convinced that we should be ruled by the Islamic sharia, irrespective of who they are and what there designations might be. Based on this principle, the Islamists represent the biggest political group in the Somali society.”

Shaykh Uways expressed the belief that there is nothing to prevent pursuing every respectable method to establish the Islamic rule in Somalia. He added:

“Call it what you like — elections, coups d’état, revolutions, and so on. The important thing is that such methods should be respectable ones. There is a general popular acceptance of the Islamic rule. I am certain that if the Somali people were given the choice of either establishing a secular state or an Islamic state, the majority would choose the Islamic state.”

Shaykh Uways added:

“Democratic regimes ruled Somalia. Then they were followed by the communist officers, then the tribes, whose regime was the worst, but all of them failed. The future now is for the Islamic rule. Let it come by any means.”

Shaykh Uways is regarded as one of the strongest objectors to the Somali transitional government. He justifies this by saying:

“Our opposition is based on a religious principle; namely, that we will not accept a secular state in Somalia that does not rule by the Islamic sharia. We might ignore certain things just in deference to the general interest of the country but we will not concede our basic principles, which are the Islamic sharia rule, the unity of the Somali territory and people, and liberating the occupied Somali territory.”

Shaykh Uways spoke about the forms by which they oppose the transitional government, saying:

“Nations try methods that are suitable to them. If peaceful methods are not successful, then they resort to arms. Even the Americans, who criticize us, resort to force if peace does not serve them. We have the right to define the methods that suit us. There is nothing new in this.”

Asked about the Taliban model for the Islamic rule in Somalia, Shaykh Uways said:

“Each people have their own circumstances. We rely on general principles of Islam without any particular color.  Naturally, among those who believe in a certain principle, and this includes the principles of Islam, we find those who stand at the extreme ends, this side or that side; that is, hawks and doves. We stand in the middle. We are neither strict nor lenient. Islam praises moderation in everything but it is strange that some, including the Americans, consider this centrism to be extremisms and a hardline attitude.”

While I was interview Shaykh Uways in his house in Mogadishu, a warplane, which was generally believed to be American, was flying over Mogadishu with a thunderous noise.  Such planes could be seen during daylight hours. I asked him: Do you not fear that the hand of the Americans will reach you, given that you are on the list of those who support terrorism? He replied:

“They say that their arm is long but I say that God’s arm is longer.  I believe in Fate, and the prophet, may the blessings of God be upon him, used to seek God’s help against the oppression of men and against cowardice too.  I will not say that I am fearless because fear exists in the hearts of all men but I remember that one of the US presidents — I think he was President Roosevelt — said: The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.”

I asked Shaykh Uways how he felt when he heard the roaring of US planes over Mogadishu.  He said:

“Like every Somali, I feel injustice and oppression but I am a military man and they taught us that planes do not conquer territories. The Somali people are fighters by nature and they do not fear these distant movements in the sky.  Those who die would die with pride and those who live would live, also with pride.”

Shaykh Uways spoke about accusations against the so-called jihadist groups, which are said to be targeting foreign nationals. He said:

“This is part of the tendentious campaign against all Islamists, accusing them of being killers, and that they kill foreigners. Even some Western newspapers depicted the noble prophet as a terrorist. We do not kill people, whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims. We do not believe in the tribal type of revenge and blood feuds; that is, if one of us is killed or if we come under oppression we must take revenge by attacking anyone from among foreign nationals that we might encounter. This is not true. We think that shedding the blood of any innocent person is impermissible irrespective of his religion or nationality. However, the tendentious media claim that Islamists kill foreigners indiscriminately.”

Shaykh Uways spoke about three messages he sent to US President George Bush on various occasions, such as the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. He said:

“I told President Bush: You have in your possession all the money and property of Muslims and therefore there is no need to fight us in the first place. You have decided to wage a war against Muslims. If your motive is religious, then it will be a Crusader war that would last generations and generations, and we will see what the result will be. But if your target is the wealth, all the wealth of Muslims is in your hands now. If you fight, you will eventually lose in this case because if you fight for something that is already in your possession you will lose it. We have nothing to lose.”

Shaykh Uways added:

“The United States has been taken in by the advice of the Ethiopians who are playing up the lie about fighting terrorism in Somalia. I had not expected this because US security services should not have been deceived by Ethiopian informers. I tell the US Administration: It is not in your interest to sacrifice Somalia for the incorrect Ethiopian information that terrorism exists in Somalia.”

Shaykh Uways said:

“In the 20th Century, Muslims held the United States in great respect because it supported many Islamic peoples who sought freedom from colonialism. We recognize that the United States did us a favor by this.  However, when the other superpower in the world collapsed, the United States turned against the Islamic peoples and considered them enemies. The current US Administration reversed this old favor and lost and is still losing many things because of these policies.”

Biography of Shaykh Uways

Shaykh Uways comes form a well known religious family in southern Somalia. He joined the Army in his youth and was promoted to the rank of colonel by the late 1970’s. However, Shaykh Uways differed with the military establishment in the country because of his obvious Islamic tendencies. He was sent to prison and sentenced to death but he was released from jail following a general amnesty after two years imprisonment.

Shaykh Uways became a Muslim preacher after he left prison in the mid 1980’s and he established, with a number of Islamist leaders, the Somali Islamic Union (Al-Itihaad) group, which had Salafi leanings and which strongly opposed the policies of the previous regime.  After the fall of the central government in Somalia in 1991, Shaykh Uways led the military wing of the Somali Islamic Union group, which waged wars against the Somali warlords, including at that time the current president Abdullah Yusuf Ahmad.

After the events of 11 September 2001, the United States placed the name of Shaykh Uways on the list of those who incite terrorism but it did not issue an arrest warrant against him. The United States also placed the Somali Islamic Union group, of which he was one of the founders, on the list of the terrorist organizations that Washington was pursuing.

Shaykh Uways, who is 59, lives in Mogadishu and is now running an institute teaching Koranic knowledge. He is regarded as the spiritual guide of the Islamic courts and was appointed chairman of the Shura Council of the Islamic courts. Some observers are of the opinion that appointing Shaykh Uways as chairman of the Shura council is a factor of strength for the extremist wing of the Islamic courts movement, which does not accept less than an Islamic state in Somalia ruled by the Islamic sharia.